Tales from the lot episode 17 my guest Michael ly Bay coming to you from Budapest Hungary he's here to talk

52789 the AIDS benefit some Stella Blue heartbreak and why Billy Jean is the greatest pop song ever here we go hi

welcome to tals from the lot I'm will my guest today is Michael ly Bay uh this is my first International Version he's

coming to us from Budapest Liv Spain been all over the place hi Michael how you doing how's it going how's it going

I'm glad to be the show this is cool yeah I'm very glad to have you on here too um we're going to talk about his

first show which was the the AIDS benefit show in 52789 and and a bunch of other things but um you know Budapest

like okay what are you doing to Budapest that's a that's a cool place to be so I'm a I'm a teacher I teach

anthropology and um as of late like the last 10 years I've been teaching

anthropology to design students um fantastic basically I'm the the party

pooper the the one that Slams on the brakes so so all this BS isn't isn't released on the

market but um yeah so I live in in Madrid um I'm originally Austrian I live

in Madrid and I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area and so that was my my

exposure to the Grateful Dead and um and right now I'm out in Budapest um

teaching for a week and a half at this school here gotcha so uh so growing up what what music were you listening to

but you know before you got to the Bay Area or or when you got there what what what were you into as a job right so my

musical Journey so um um I always I always loved music uh

it always touched me very very hard um and you know as a teenager so I moved to

the Bay Area when I was 12 so that would be in um in

83 um we moved there and so I was in the I was in the famous Paulo Alto it's kind

of it's kind of funny all the but this is before all the high-tech before it was even Silicon Valley right right y so

I was just a teenager I was just going to Junior High School there and and high school and and so on and and so I was

listening to the basics like like Michael Jackson that that was like my teenage staple diet I still think

Thriller is an incredible album actually I just listened to that yesterday actually like and you know in 83 you

really could not avoid Michael Jackson it's just how it was but it was quality commercials and everything else he was

just everywhere like when I have these sorts of nerdy um no offense but these

nerdy music conversations um I always say I think the best pop song ever written is Billy

Jean I love that song AB is incredible I think the the Baseline of just the how

the words flow yeah it's all so good and when when that shuffling beat comes in

and it's just drives and it grooves and it's there's not that much going on it's like sparse it's cool yeah but uh great

too yeah for sure and the the the Moonwalk um yeah but so from then so I

have a my cousin is a year older than me um he's in he's living in Austria

and he back and we've always been in like musical dialogues and conversations and so he really gave me that big step

he recorded on some um you know cassettes Dolby cassettes um the 90minut

ones that had pretty good sound actually um and so he would give me I would be

there in the summer in Austria and then as a kind of gift he would give me a few

tapes right and I remember the first couple were um Pink Floyd uh animals on

one side which blew me away I think that was my introduction to Pink Floyd which is

right an underrated album I think I think it's amum it's an amazing album it's so old

it's it's crazy um and on the other side I can't remember exactly but some Jethro tall I

got really into Jethro tall like n real geek geekwise I saw

them like six times I I met Ian Anderson once got his signature and [ __ ] like

this it was like a an asexual groupy is like what I'd like to call it right yeah

I just wanted to meet these people and then um you know Blues I got into John

Lee Hooker and BB King um this kind of stuff um Gary Moore I remember listening

to that um in terms of Hard music um my

introductions were Deep Purple and Black Sabbath and this kind of stuff rainbow I

like rainbow a lot um the Richie Blackmore stuff um so iing that did Samy

sing in that did Sammy Hagar sing in that band Rainbow he might have for one of the Revival or something but not

originally you know that it was Ron it was Ronnie James Deo it was right that's right right right um so yeah that kind

of spooky Mystic stuff and then let Zeppelin obviously I think my first one was Physical Graffiti actually another a

strange sort of entrance um and so my my friends were really

into so now we're talking high school I graduated in ' 89 so you know 87 88 is

when we really listen to to what I consider cool music right and yeah and

uh they were really into some of the stuff that was super popular like you too the the Rattle and hum thing

and and Joshua Tree I think those are good hours but back then I I was almost

like rebelling it because everyone was listening to it you know so I was like

no I'm Floyd and Seth real T you know um I'm with you on the YouTube thing but

but when Rattle and H came out there was something about that album that that I did like and that's like I can an

country album It's irish guys doing an out country album and it works I I think it's good yeah um and they were into

Peter Gabriel that I never got into the whole Sledgehammer thing and I hate that

song actually but um and so my um I'll get to when I was exposed to the dead in

a second but I was uh my first concert um my very first rock concert

was actually Roger Waters um in Oakland it was for the radio

chaos um I I still think his solo albums are underrated I think there's some really good stuff even the last one I

really quite like actually um so that was my first concert

my um let's see my introduction to the great fet I actually search through my

um through my memories right because this kind of stuff gets mixed up right

it does so I remember when I my very first um time they the very first time

they came on the radar right when there was like this very strong signal that hit me and it wasn't even music I

remember in in junior high school I guess seventh grade this guy Raheem is

his name I I stayed in touch with him a little bit um he wore this bright red

orange yellow psychedelic Grateful Dead art

t-shirt you know the iconic I don't know if it was like the floating eyeball

thingy or that Surfer I love that one the Californian

Surfer um I've been looking to get that on a t-shirt because I love that art do

you know which one I'm talking about I do yeah I see it's like dude yeah he's

catching a tube right and and and says grateful that um so that was like an

impact I was like what is this and I read Grateful Dead and it looked kind of heavy

and ironic I think the Grateful Dead are heavy not in the sense obviously of

speed or of heavy guitar not in that sense but they hit heavy it's like it

can get pretty dark yeah the emotional weight of it it's it hits that's what

I'm saying yeah and there's a little YouTube clip of of Ryan Adams where he

plays an acoustic version of um what is it China doll or no War rat War rat and

he said that and I agree fully with him he says that when he's in a kind of a strange place um bad you know mental

state he listens to Heavy Music like metal and and the Grateful Dead and that

really resonated with me but so that so that was the first sort of okay there's that there's that Universe um my first

introduction to them was a mixtape a friend of mine gave me classic you know this must have been 10th grade or

something and she put on there you know a lot of the Europe 72

stuff um and um some some of the studio albums and she just packed one of these

90 minute tapes with the dead and that that Rec that tape I had running so

often um One time my car was broken into and that was the first thing I thought

about it I was like um yeah I love that thing um and that's

interesting most people it seems like most people end up with like a whole like a friend will give them a show to listen to and and and and a lot of times

their first op opinion is well it's okay you know and then they go and then they get it and it's it's all good but the

mixtape might be the way to go to to to get see it's and I I totally know what

you're saying I always suffer when I try to turn turn on someone to the Grateful Dead it's like the worst for everyone

like I've stopped crying honestly because what do you what do you play like like someone like you

that obviously knows what he's talking about um you know I could find some

tracks that that you would love right now and you would find some tracks that I would love than I've never heard but

with a with a virgin so to speak who someone who's has no idea it's like I

don't know I might go with I don't know like M like I wouldn't

it's not the studio really but they want to hear Studio you know what I mean they want to hear clean um I say without a

net would be a decent St that's a pretty good intro except I think sort of a mixtape sort of I agree the without net

is beautiful um the recording is super nice I am actually not a huge fan of win

marceles and his saxs lions are clar l I I think it's I think it's too many

notes it's like the dead are already pretty dense you know but that's just personal um personal uh you know

flavor um let's see where were we I right so that tape um then I ended up

getting myself a couple albums it was right when CDs were hitting and so um

those were some of my first CD purchases actually I got uh those two that recorded in 81 I think was Reckoning and

that's set um and so you got the the acoustic part

of that band and then the electric one and that one did a lot to my head

like so by the way as we speak as we speak for me the Grateful Dead are like

flashes it's like I can't even talk about an entire show to be totally honest for me the grateful that is all

about these moments and I even go as far

as this is going to sound super Blasphemous on your on your podcast but but you and your listeners

will actually know what I'm talking about I think when I tell my friends

above my fascination with the great for that because I I listen to them like close to a daily base still like 30

years later it's almost medicine it just it just calms me down it puts me in the

place and I still yeah it's totally a big part of me and I still discover um things like

getting ready for this show I was listening just to get warmed up I was listening to some of the stuff that I

think I went to in the in 80 80 end of 89 90 and Shoreline these I don't even

know exactly which shows it was um but yeah that

was that yeah that stuff hit me really deep I I got off the track so so I I tell my my uh friends about the

fascination and here's the Blasphemous part I think the Greatful that suck for

about 80% of the time I go that high but the 20% when they lock up is pure magic

there's no other band that even comes close to that so we can now argue okay

80 is pretty rough how about how about 50 50 or whatever but what I'm saying is they do lose it at points and that's

what I love about this band it's it's like an honest um good conversation

every good conversation has these moment when it's like H I think I'm gonna get

another beer you know this kind of moment right um but then

all and they hit these passages these spaces and it's so brave that's another

thing my friends don't get they're like dude this is the opposite of Brave these guys are wearing sweatsuits

and they're just noodling I'm like no you don't get it these guys went out there without a set list and maybe vague

ideas of what they're going to play in the first set and second set and just [ __ ] went for it and failed sometimes

they failed [ __ ] and they were high as a [ __ ] and they were

[ __ ] exactly so it's also about the right dosage like too sober or too

high or whatever right yeah um

so yeah so so yeah for me it's it's finding these these moments when they

when they lock up but the but you can't just fast forward to the locking up it's the same with the conversation

right you need to have that you need it it takes a little bit of work to get into some of their

groups um and then and then you wait for that uh that Crescendo or that that

locking up or those really quiet moments or or whatever so um yeah so that was

themselves either I mean they're trying to play songs like tup and and you know that there's a lot going on in a lot of

these comp song for sure they didn't make it easy on themselves a lot of times totally I I play the guitar a

little bit and the Greatful that it's not actually easy to play in my opinion

I I I'm not very talented either and I guess you can play it straight like just

the way the chords say but they didn't play straight they had this swing that is kind of that Jerry that that super

relaxed thing and when you watch his fingers they're like everything is a trem below like everything is he's like

it's so warm that tone I could recognize in two notes you give me two Jerry

Garcia notes of some random solo Garcia uh there's a few guitar players like

that I think I can do that with BB King think I can do that with Gilmore um Billy

Gibbons yeah that's one you hear that you're like oh that's bil yeah yeah that that

that shuffle that thing yeah um yeah so we're still so this is just me exploring

and opening lots of headp space here I would listen to the stuff on with with

headphones you know my whole family would go to sleep and I would just give myself these these headphon sets

sessions and just zoom into these tracks and I don't know on on Dead uh um dead

set the Candyman when he hits those super high notes and you're like wow

it's so it's so beautiful and and and I can play that now and I would have a

similar reaction so with me you know I I I don't

know am I babbling too much or is that the whole point no that's the point this is this is a space where you can nerd

out on everything music and great and it's okay I love it I love it that I was

totally looking forward totally looking for it it's like therapeutic totally um

so yeah so we're we're not even at a point yet in my biography where where I

see them um so this is all just me finding this heads space lots of road

trip music like I would I would drive in order to listen to the dead I know it's

not very sustainable yeah I was and did the same thing yeah yeah right right you just you

just kind of go outside of town safe road and and and and start driving have

a kazoo I would have a kazoo and be playing along while I was doing it that's so hilarious I did the same thing

with a harmonica I was really into the blues a Blues Traveler as well and so I would be driving going not really well

but I was just sort of jamming along totally um yeah so yeah music is super

super important to me and it was never that the dead just it was that's by it's

not everything I listen to right H there's a lot of other stuff and it's

kind of like the test of time like there's some albums that I liked back

then that didn't age well um my actually my first

um record vinyl record that I bought before the CD was um yes the one with

the numbers nine zal it was like yeah it was like when

they came back after I at us or something so that one you can't I can't

really listen to um I was see I I did I don't like yes all that much like like

yes no no roundabouts okay but but owner a Lonely Heart I was like

10 years old and that song kind of grabbed me and so later on I got the album and and now I'll still listen to

that album but I skip on I think some of it's decent like changes I think it's kind I mean but you can't look at it as

like the same no for sure like I'm saying everyone gets hit by these sound bites in a different

moment with a different emotional state um so yeah so I was um I I went to see a

bunch of shows and I still haven't hadn't seen the the dead yet I I went to see a lot of regy music I love regy

music I love ska um so SCA Punk divide I always went

towards the ska even the fast stuff like let's go bowling and and the two-tone

stuff like the specials and U Madness yeah I know about the specials but I I I

gotta admit my SCA uh knowledge is lacking okay problem on the punk side of those

but yeah that's Scot is just something that I I just haven't listened to a whole lot of and and about that I should

probably start yeah no it's it's like it's like us sped up um regy I mean it

was old school Scot like the Scot lights and this this sort of uh these guys over

on in Jamaica doing mtown but with their skank and that's lovely I love that

stuff but then later it got sped up and that annoys some people it's like you

know yeah it's almost paa you know um but then uh The Clash I love that to

me is punk and Scar coming together um but yeah I was more scy and more metal

uh the punk thing I didn't totally get I never totally got uh Punk to tell you the

truth I like some um Rollins band and some black flag and some of this stuff

um but like the sex pistols and stuff I I don't know even the Ramon I find them

overrated I don't know but you growing up in the 80s in the San Francisco Bay Area probably heard of the dead dead

kennedies while you're around there sure this Steely with the dead kennedies

inside of the skull some there's some kind of relationship there with the name or something I read at some point

something like the dead Kennedy like the Grateful de or something like that there's some

I would be surprised but maybe yeah whatever those guys just hate everything

I felt like just just just to be those guys that hated everything you know to get poies right there's a there's an

interesting punk band also that I like that that mix the the reggae and the and the punk the Bad Brains that's

interesting I love the Bad Brains yes all right right on yeah that's that's a

crazy band because they don't like they're so good at both they're so good

at both they're playing this grind core thing and then there's like and then and

beautiful Roots ree you know both of them it's amazing they're

like like they're like the best ree band right now and the best CL man at the same time yeah

um terms of Reggae I think um right now my what I listen to a lot is is

groundation they're actually out of out of California that's a really solid uh

regab band if you're into it but uh anyways back to the 80s so um I was sort

of rebelling against all the um all the pop that was coming out it was almost

like a stance uh somehow um and then um

and then of course grunge hit and that's where my my friends met again right so

so I had this group of high school buddies that I were still in really good uh CL close contact actually or

relatively close contact cuz I live in Europe um but that United us so we

everyone agreed on Pearl Jam everyone agreed on on uh Nirvana

um sound garden uh the Stone Temple Pilots this kind of stuff I was really

into the Smashing Pumpkins as well which is technically not not grunge or is it I

don't whatever I don't care that I think is an amazing album amazing music um so

I was getting into all of that um and then there's two more really important influences for me so my parents both

like music a lot as well and my dad is very specialized with one

type of jazz okay so he likes cool Jazz and bpop so like Miles

Davis um is the end of what he listens to not the beginning he doesn't even go

to Coan or the crazy free free jazz fusion stuff he more like Charlie Parker

era and absolutely Oscar Peterson um Stan GS um Dave Breck that

kind of stuff hey there are you tired of the

same old grocery store grind the battle for the last ripe avocado the cart traffic jams that rival the Autobon and

the hunt for the mysterious organic section that's more elusive than a unicorn

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week well hold on to your dreadlocks because I have a cosmic Revelation for you presenting grateful groceries the

grocery delivery service is here to rescue you from the TDM and send you on a culinary full tour through the

cosmos imagine a world where the produce section is an enchanted forest where the

avocados jump into your cart and the almond milk flows like a psychedelic liquid River that's right folks grateful

groceries delivers only the freshest most locally sourced organic Treasures all packaged in tie-dye wrappers that

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cart chaos and farewell to checkout lines that seem to stretch to infinity and beyond and say hello to Grateful

groceries grateful groceries oh so fine organic food I'm on cloud n tie-dye bags

it's all online you can shop with a smile all the

time grateful groceries because life is too short to take grocery shopping

seriously yes so he would give me an album for every birthday and every

Christmas kind of thing and so now I have a kickass CD collection of that

type of jazz like really good albums um

because it added up over the years right he still gives me my dad's still alive and he still gives me Jazz

records so so there's that uh huge huge influence on me I remember one time in

the Bay Area driving with my dad just running arand or something and the so

this must have been 88 or something another one of these music flashes he played me um take five right

the the Famous Dave breik and I was listening to that to that piano thing that Motif that

continues on and on and on and on and it was kind of cramping my style I was like

oh this thing is like a loop is it's like H and I was like I was telling my dad dad this is not very good it keeps

repeating and he looked at me he's like you're listening to the wrong thing you got listen to the drummer listen to the drummer and then I

did I like I went below I went to the drummer and he's doing all of these crazy

syncopated little fills and [ __ ] and and I got it I was like wow okay let's play

this again from the beginning you know so and then from my mother's side

it's all classical right and so she didn't have this tradition of giving me records but she played a lot of

classical music at home um and I was always drawn to the heavy to the to the

emotional stuff you know Beethoven Bak like I would say if Bak is alive now he

would be in a Scandinavian death metal band yeah like playing a giant

organ yeah like the the fug or whatever the famous the one that's on all the

best off classical

CDs it's got a metal a metal Vibe but um so yeah I would I was into really the

the stuff but it would also mess with my head sometimes I would be would get me

down and stuff it affected me really strongly classical

music so you know how did you end up with that first uh show in

89 you see hear the radio I want to go grab some tickets or it was back then it

was Ticket Master it was just going to Tower record standing in line and and uh

and getting a ticket and everyone was talking about the dead this is when the the tou a great thing was right there

right uh that song Hit whatever in ' 88 or ' 89 I forget and and I didn't even I

I saw that famous MTV clip a bunch of times of course um and and there were

some kids in high school that all of a sudden were wearing the tie dyed socks and the biren stocks and had that whole

thing going and I wasn't part of that like I

always sort of resist going full into clicks I always liked the contrast I

remember doing some pretty infantile things like wearing Doc Martin Boots sending that signal but then with

the regular laces to send that opposite signal I was like super nerdy and

infantile but um making a statement you're making a statement I was making a little bit of a statement and I would go

to the Dead shows in my dog Martin and boots and I didn't want to be fullon dead head even though I I love the

Grateful there but um so yeah so I bought tickets it was that aids benefit um 87 so it must have

been uh 10th grade uh I guess in May and I just went with this guy actually from

Barcelona now that I think of it another uh one of these Spanish connection there's a whole bunch of little Spanish

connection that we might get to um um Andre was his name and and um

it was his first time too um I turned him onto a little bit just showing him some tapes and stuff and we went to this

show and it was kind of a little bit weird to tell you the truth like um

there was a whole bunch a huge lineup that the C the strangest concert

bill you can think of so you got Joe Satriani and Credence clear water and

Tracy Chapman The Grateful Dead I think I wrote this down here somewhere uh L Lobo

Tower of Power which is awesome um all on the same

bill and and for I mean for me that was cool I I remember saani the surfing with

the alien that album I loved and to see that was super cool and and um Tower of

Power that hornn section is awesome um but then the show I can't even I I

don't I I won't lie to you it wasn't that it blew me away I was like okay these guys are super tight I was happy

to to see some of the music I knew but there was also a whole bunch of songs in

their list that I had never heard before you know I was just listening for the I was waiting for the Fire on the Mountain

you know the classics that you can sing along with um there was a couple of

songs that I that I have um like direct memories of um Fire on

the Mountain was one I think they played it without uh the Scarlet begonia so it was just that and those tend to be a

little bit tighter somehow um leading up to this when you mentioned the show and I and I saw that I was like oh I'm gonna

listen to that specifically because I want to hear how the transition to that win it really wasn't a transition it was

just like yeah I always go to the transition yeah

I'm going to have a malted beverage here nice a

beer it's a yeah it's uh what is it uh 11 in the morning here I'm still having

a little cup of coffee here right yeah just so just so the users know um for me

for me it's seven in the evening so um or or whatever yeah so

um um yeah so that that and then um I think they closed with broke down palace

which I love what a beautiful song and I remember that being very strong very I

was pretty far back so I wasn't I didn't get the full blast I feel like and it

was in a massive Place whatever the used to be the Raiders I think the

Oakland Coliseum I think it was or was it San Francisco I can't remember yeah the Coliseum okay

um so yeah so that was wasn't

necessarily the most important of my uh Grateful Dead moments um another one I

honestly I got into I wanted to to get all this out so I took I have some notes

Here te um so a year later um it was April 30th

88 um at the frost so this is on Stanford campus this this is like 10

minutes from my house um and I didn't have a ticket but that was the first time I

experienced the lot the Shakedown Street the the parking lot because at the

stadium that thing was a little commercial right there wasn't yeah there wasn't that scene going on it was you

got you go in you see the show you leave you know yeah sorry what were you saying just not

your typical dead show no I it was absolutely not exactly exactly so um

that one I was on the parking lot and only on the parking lot I didn't get into this one but I remember seeing

these these these crazy people um some of it was a little unsettling I got to

admit like I'm not one to to glorify every aspect of the Dead eater I think

we have to remain critical that's what a good friendship is all about personally

and there were some people who were obviously lost like obviously lost their

[ __ ] mind um and that was kind of sad to see you I remember this guy with a little

string and he was pulling this little plastic alligator behind him and talking

to it and I was like whoa okay there's that side too um yeah but the I remember

the drum Circle I remember really good vibe obviously all the

vendors um just super fun party out there I wasn't even inside and and the

music wafted it over um you know how the wind can waft

it over and sometimes you hear a little bit more and then a little bit less right um so I was circling around there

in parking lot in the frost beautiful Stanford campus there's all these eucalyptus trees it's just super Mello

California right and this one waft of sound comes over and it was um it makes

my hair stand I just thinking of a memory of a waft of sour that doesn't

even exist but anyway um and it was um Ship of Fools I don't know where in that

song but that hit so hard

the fact that you can give me chills talking about it right right and and I got this show it was actually released I

found this must have been pirated but CD I got a CD of this show and and so I can

revisit that's a beauty of this technology right I can revisit these exact moments it's it's pretty strange

and you know I was don't cold sober I was some high school kid I was I don't know I was like 17 18

just seeing this whole thing and and this this uh Ship of Fools I was like

okay okay this band is serious like there's a lot of emotions here they're

not just playing through their best off here this is different yeah they the

story and for me that was the first time I got the de believe it or not it wasn't even inside it was it was

it was really weird that was like okay I got it okay these guys go deep and

they try every time and sometimes they fail but when they nail it wow you know

and there's no band that comes even close to that in in my

opinion um then I saw a bunch of the shows at Shoreline which is a did you ever make it out

there to Shoreline no I've never seen a show Shoreline I from the other podcast I

grew up on the East Coast so most everything I saw was on the east coast and now I live in Denver so I get I get

a lot of shows here in the Colorado areas so I don't oh yeah go I go to Vegas occasionally to see a show okay

for the most part everybody comes through either Red Rocks or or somewhere here all

right nice so you're talking about dead in company and these offshoot bands or what yeah yeah yeah they play at uh

they've been playing at the football stadium uh for color University of Colorado Football Stadium Fon field the

last few years and then fish comes out here for four nights for dicks every year and then okay every other band

every other band like I can see bands you know like Primus and and stuff like that just like down kfax like two miles

from my house at a at a local you just triggered you just triggered my head uh

for a um for a concert um you know when you compare gigs um a killer concert I

saw right around this time I think it was maybe 90 San

Francisco um let's see if I get the order right yeah I think it was Primus

James addiction and the Pixies oh I mean so

good so good I I saw James addiction one time and I'm still a big fan like yeah

so good yeah wild yeah they they are they're crazy and they have their own style also it's one of those

recognizable bands also definitely and then uh my my trump card now I'm off

the subject again with the with the with the Grateful Dead but my absolute best

card um would be I went to see um the wall in Berlin the 1990 that the huge

show that Waters put on I traveled to that one wow so that's yeah that that

that was pretty crazy when he built this gigantic thing on pot plats right right in the center of of Berlin yeah just

like took it down down one one brick at a time right or something like that yeah they played behind the wall for half of

the show and he had all these guests he actually had like the the man members of

the band on there and sheno Connor and um few other people like famous

people but but anyways back yeah yeah it's on YouTube it's on

YouTube yeah true well I was one of those heads in in there some

so um yeah Shoreline um apparently I read online somewhere that they actually

built Shoreline for the dead and that you can look at it from above and it looks like a Steely like those um those

sales um they got these beautiful sailes over this over the audience part and

then it Narrows down into the into where the band stands and that would be like the mandible or the the jaw of the the

of the Steely whatever I don't know if it's true or not but um but that's a

that's a great venue because you're out there in the bay lands so it's off the city um so you don't have that whole

city hustle going on um it's it's it's peaceful in that sense and it's a

slanted um slanted um lawn um really good Acoustics outside

just super mellow and so I saw them there a few times um and actually

leading up to this talk here I I I went to some of the ones I think I went to um

I think I went to uh 1989 September 30th I think I was at

that one and that was really good like they were they were they were going they

were greased up and really good Jerry Garcia was I I think it was one of those

Windows of sobriety that he had yeah like 87

86 everything it was it had the moments it was maybe your 8020 rule there

um yeah defitely that sentence now okay I I bring it down to 5050 or something

um um but uh all of them um you know Bob Weir is just such an amazing Rhythm

guitarist and he was showcasing that with all these weird chords and inverted

cord I don't even know I'm not a theory guy when it comes to music I know when it hits you know but uh but you can just

see him all over the fretboard um yeah he made some strides definitely in that time in his playing I felt like right

right and he and he was really trying hard on the slide he was trying we give that he was trying emphasis on trying

yeah I don't that I'm not not a fan of and then and then his singing I I like

when he sings d songs I think he does those quite nicely U like Masterpiece and Memphis

Blues or whatever that song is called and um I don't I don't like when he goes

when he does the blue stuff the red rooster and then this is like I'm not

much of a fan but I do love the Bobby song stuff like feel like a stranger and estimated Pro oh feel like a stranger is

a great song so Cassidy I mean Cassidy also let it grow so many Let It Grow and

um um estimate a profit that's a that's a weird song that's an amazing hook yeah

but when he goes off on the and when they tweaked they tweaked

him the sound guy was messing with that in that era as well um and then um Brent

I mean Brent I was a huge fan huge fan and I listened to that era of dead now

is probably my favorite not just because I was there so it's not just Melancholy

I like what Brent brings in with the Hammond Organ and the blues

vocals um he's got an attitude he's got a bit of I don't want to call it Punk because it's not Punk but it's like

sudden Rock almost or something it's like yeah um love that and then and then

Phil Les just always I I think he the most steady of all of those musicians actually like

no I would agree with that it doesn't make mistakes it justes I would agree with

that um and the drummers you know so it was I think it was a really good period

yeah well that's what I that's what I said ear with that with that weird comment like um I think we got to remain

honest there there was some it's not all blindingly brilliant but that's the

beauty of it somehow um like you could see a Pink Floyd concert and they're standing at the

exact spot on stage so that a laser hits them at the right angle when they hit a

note or something right and it comes a point when you're like okay I can just listen to this with my headphones lying

on the couch it's the exact same thing yeah with the that it wasn't it was an adventure it was it was a voyage

on in your head and and and in this space and and the lights were the same way that you know that the lights aren't

pre-programmed you know they're they're do it as they go in the moment so that was all part of it yeah yeah ABS

absolutely that yeah that's a good point that I haven't thought about um enough I guess I know that the that the the sound

Engineers um in real time were almost dejing the players that sounds kind of

weird but right they were opening some channels closing some others I think

so yeah it all happened in real time absolutely and and yeah they just went

on these on these voyages and and so in those years Shoreline um I saw some

really nice stuff out there and it's really close to home so that was like um Logistics wise that was a pretty

easy thing to do um and then I saw them in in Oakland a bunch of times in the

Coliseum um and there is another one of these

flashes this one super Bittersweet um it's uh it's kind of a

crazy story this one was actually released as dicks uh pick um volume

27 um so that was December 16 1992 wz vck welnick is on it at this

point um I think they were still decent I was starting to lose a little bit of interest um

I think my last one was 93 I didn't see anything in 94 95 um regret it because

there were some amazing stuff in those periods as well right but I was I was

somewhere else music- wise for those years um oh yeah I understand that totally 94 is when I saw the most just

that's when I was kind of you just came a little bit after me a little bit later yeah yeah um through the V year I'm

definitely missed out on Brent but listen to a time that's probably what I go to first most of the time is

somewhere mid the late 80s so so at that show

um um I got to embellish this one because it's really Bittersweet uh thing

it was um at the at the yland colum at this point I was studying in in Berkeley

um um you know and and I was living over there I was living um close to Oakland

between Berkeley and Oakland there and got to the show a little bit L

little bit late okay so I took the BART uh this is um you

know yeah public transportation area um took that to the to the to the show it

was a little bit late so I knew I was I had a ticket but I knew I was coming in in the middle of the first set or

something um or I guess I would have to check that out because I know exactly when I came in and here's the story

um I was with this girl back then um my it was my first um real relationship

like this was a two and a half year relationship it was very very intense relationship but at this point it was

sort of crumbling at this point it was coming apart a little bit and and she

was at this show we obviously we wanted to see this together we got the ticket together she went there earlier with

some other friends from from UC Berkeley right and I come later and I come in and

this is before cell phones and she just said okay look when I when you come in

I'll be on the front on the right side this sort of vague description right and

so I was searching through the crowd and Stella Blue comes

on and Stella Blue is such a sad

song it's such strange beautiful song I think it it feels like a blue song but it's not

really it's a ballet it's got something country I don't you know what I'm saying

right yeah and it's got that silence moment where he's like it's got that silent moment

absolutely absolutely where they leave it let it hang and it's it's but but it was actually like I said a Bittersweet

moment because I when I found them she was in the arms of some other dude like

like another dude was like embracing her from behind and and I just I caught them

red-handed right they weren't making out but they were obviously not just standing next to each other in a concert

it was more obviously weren't strangers they weren't feeling like Str strangers exactly and it was with that song and it

was just so it was just so horrible and it just sent me on such a Negative

downward spiral so that show um you know I can't even say that I that that that

that was anything great for me but the interesting thing is that was released so Dix Pig volume 27 you can check it

out at some point if you want and that Stella Blue um is is actually probably

my favorite one um and so it's really weird yeah no no problem it is a funny

story cuz I catch I catch my girlfriend cheating on me with this cheese ball

that's another thing is this guy that's been hovering around her you know this kind of guy um you know that's saying

little cheesy things and she and she found it funny and this so jealousy like serious jealousy for my part um and this

song and then when you listen to it now it's like I think one of the very best Stella um versions when when when when

he goes that little Sil and he says Stella Blue right and when they go from

that I think it's an a to an E or the other way around Phil Les has this thick honey

Baseline it's like dripping honey I don't know how else to describe this right now and it almost sounds like a

cello because he's sliding on the strings I think and yeah check that out

that's one of my absolute most poignant moments and and then I was there in this

weird thing and somehow this is going to sound super esoteric now okay super hippie

dippy but if you think about it if that is a live recording of that song that

Vibe of mine is somehow in there yeah you know what I'm saying it's a weird

thought but somehow if you're going to speak of vibrations or energy or

whatever there was this little kid in there um because at this point I was a whatever 21 or

something and just having a hard time I I think I was crying at the moment and

stuff and and the song did not help yeah yeah there's this this bundle

of energy happening right there yeah yeah totally um wow I got all emotional just

talking about a moment um that happened in 1992 that's

freaking 31 years ago that's crazy um

so let's see what else is on my list here um I um okay so there's some some really

odd moments as you were um like announcing me or introducing me

here and on this on this podcast um you're saying that that I've been all over and it's true I have been I have

been traveling a lot and and living in in in different places Austria California and Spain um Spain for the

last 20 years and and there's this there's some weird connections to the dead in in Spain

um uh so they're not well known like at all like it's this little ritual Spanish

love music there's great live music there great party culture the Spanish really um really get into it and it's

never sloppy it's like really stylish I love that part of of Spain and we always

have music conversations these sorts of nerdy things and not very often people

are aware of the Grateful lid like did they play there I don't remember okay so

that's what I was leading up this was a segue got um uh yeah they they they

played one time there and and I researched this also this was in October

19th um 1981 so it was one of those Europe

M and um and they played in Barcelona and um so that's obviously way

before me so I didn't I didn't see this not even close but they played in in um

in Spain one time and and Garcia as as as you know is half Spanish or was half

Spanish right and his dad was a a jazz um musician I don't know which

instrument but he was a jazz musician up from Galia so this is in the north of Spain

beautiful country um I don't know how to pick have you

been to Ireland or something like this or no I haven't no um so picture rolling

Rolling Hills um Forest um and then the ocean so it's on the very very top of

Spain and so there's that connection and you know makes you wonder so he's he was

half Spanish the the guy was half Spanish uh Genetically speaking um and they play

one time um not huge but I've like in 20 years there I might have seen I'm not

kidding you I might have seen two or three steelies on cars and trust me I look for steelies on cars

yeah that's not many no it's just it's not really and it's a mystery to me

because I I think they would get into it um

so I've actually like hacked I got this this water bottle it's flat water bottle

and I hacked it um and one of the reasons is I pulled this out and I'm

like okay here's the logo do you know what this is and that's like the the test you know

and um and then some people do that they just know they just still know the right pronunciation I guess they would be like

gra graul Dead uh you know I could go around Denver and drive around like 10

minutes right now and see like 10 steal your pces probably for sure yeah I know

Colorado is is really big into the dead yeah there's something there um but um a

moment that I wanted to talk to you about was um so in the middle of Spain right so

picture this in the middle of Spain and there's this abandoned Village um it's

super it's out in the middle of nowhere it's pretty spooky they do it's these

houses that use um what's it called slate Slade or what is it the the the

black um Stone that's really thin um yeah for shingles exactly yeah and so

it's this spooky sort of witchy will Village right in the middle of of Spain

and this is about 15 years ago and um we found out that there's a party there a

kind of an outside Rave um and so they had these sound systems out there these speakers like

you know um Jamaican style like dub dub

sound systems right and and it was kind of a Punky feel there was these punks that lived in these abandoned in these

houses um super cool super cool and there was a moment in the evening when

um we were just hooking up our MP3 players right so it's right when we all had our little shuffles and our little

um Apple devices or whatever and there was this moment when

I was like okay it's my turn can I plug mine in and I was like oh and they gave it to

me they're like okay go for it they they they call me giddy giddy is like a like

an endearing way of saying Foreigner okay because I'm the Austrian I'm not the and I speak with an accent

when I speak in Spanish strong accent right um and I wasn't even speaking very well

back then this is 15 years ago but anyway so I have my moment and and so classic Grateful Dead dilemma what do

you put on like these people have never heard and so I go for um the skull skull

and roses the going down the road and not fade away that uh or is it the other way

around Not Fade Away Going Down The Road Feeling Bad um I love that thing that double thing

there as a life recording and super

clean production and that transition is just so so good I

think and anyways there's no real punchline to this story it's just I I I

selected that one we turned it up we had these big speakers in the middle of nowhere you know just to embellish it

the moon was out clear night and it just went and these guys got into it there

when when you have that B didly that shuffle of not fade away and and and right there where and it was just

carrying over this Valley and I was like okay so that's the grateful that and some people probably there's some people

that I turned on uh with that sound flash you never know I've never seen these people again yeah well was

surprised you didn't say shaked down street but you know uh you know just for the day's ability but but not fade away

is probably Choice moment Shakedown Street is an interesting one as an

introductory track because it's got this almost P Funk this disco thingy going on

right yeah it but it's a it's a it's a walk on the line to me like like that

could turn people off because it's got a bit of a cheese factor in my opinion that's true love

I love that riff don't get me wrong yeah you're right for for for for somebody who doesn't know uh they might not get

it they might not get it um another one I was contemplating was um estimated um

but then there's such variants like which version uh some of them are a little faster than others and and stuff

but I love that's a great riff too signature just riff um yeah I

agree so yeah so that was um that was another one

of those moments and then there have been little ones um like like like with

the Steely like like I've bumped into people on airports that have the little logo or

the dancing bears or whatever and you know strangers string

Stoppers strangers just to shake their hands kind of thing yeah I've had little

moments um like that there was one in so so I haven't been in in in Spain

in these 20 years I wasn't there continuously we moved the whole operation I got two daughters so we're

four my wife and two daughters um we moved the whole thing back to Austria for five years and to this city that's

pretty um um parochial is pretty pretty dead um

salsburg I mean it's super famous it's where m is from and but they kind of got stuck in the Baroque honestly there's

like no scene yeah they just stayed there yeah um no scene but there's there was

there's one H concert venue that I went to a lot called Rock House um and that's

symptomatic of my relationship of soub I hung out at this [ __ ] up Brock venue

that was my favorite and I saw a bunch of shows at that place some of them real good um but

MO so MO is kind of a jam jam band you know them right y yeah and I wasn't even

aware of them I just saw on the on the web page that this band is coming and then I looked at it and they said jam

band I was like okay I'm going obviously um and um that one is actually on

YouTube uh like 2014 in salsburg Austria Mo

um I I was able to find it and anyway so I I go in there and all of a sudden like

I get there before the show we're hanging out at the the bar having some beer and there's all these guys with

these Grateful Dead t-shirts and fish t-shirts and whatever t-shirts and I was so moved and like I

was so starved of of this sort of conversation that I just went and bought

this total stranger a massive beer I just in Austria they have these big ones like like it's like half a Le her um um

you know and I just walked up to him and said here you go because you're wearing that

T-shirt and then and talked until the show started right yeah yeah

exactly and and they uh they they put on a great show you can um I don't know if

you can hear me but at some point I'm it was relatively small venue and I'm yelling Franklin's Tower because I

thought they they were kind of in a j that sounded a little bit like that and I almost thought they're teasing it and

so I was yelling that they never played it but um I ended up hanging out with them again the the asex asexual groupy

like I'm not I'm not interested in anything but hanging out it for me it's

the greatest thing on earth like when you hang out with really good musicians I love that I don't know certainly is

and I ended up hanging out backstage with them um you know that partying and

it was it was actually really really fun so that was a another one of those

moments get to ask him if they were teasing the Franklin's Tower I probably asked him I can't I can't remember their

response actually I remember we talked about the dead

um uh there was another band that came through to that venue and that I was actually going to recommend when on the

outro there's like you you talk about stuff um one band that I really have

been pretty loyal to it's very different vibe but woven hand um have you heard of

them no but I'm writing it down right now yeah this is this is weird this is

interesting um so w when hand does this Southern um folklore out country but

there's punk in there there it's heavy music it's pretty it's pretty hard music

actually but they play on old time um band Ang and loots and so it's got this

spooky and and the voice his name is d d Edwards or something like that he's a

real interesting guy um it's dark it's dark music better

than no it's not mfor and Son absolutely absolutely yeah exactly well well

put it's like it's the best time to be alive right now if you're a music lover you got no excuse I don't even want to

hear any bitching and complaining you can listen to literally anything that has ever been produced at your fingertip

like like people who say can suck take a no totally but but people who are like oh no I sto listening to music

because okay um yeah you know but um what was I I'm just

riffing with you I'm just this is fun um uh so I woven hand and and I hung out

after that gig also and I talked to musician and and I ask him what he

thinks of Friend of the Devil because I think that's a dark folkloric song like I think that song is

going to go into like it's going to be a traditional quote unquote it's that classic of a

song that it's sort of like Mary got a little lamb it's it's a standard it's to me like it's not far enough back to call

it a true standard but I think it it will be and the guy answered something

like well that's different type of music but he was absolutely he absolutely shared my point that that is a a classic

folklore kind of dark it's about this weird character right running from the

law it's like a lot of grateful Le like the storytelling it's actually murder

ballads a lot yeah a lot of it yeah a lot of it murder balance it's like Nick Cave style but

but a little bit happier music around it but um yeah when you listen to

Loser um or or deal or or me and my uncle yeah War rat yeah I mean they do

have dead in their name though so right they let you know FR by the way

there will be dead there will be some death yeah

um so uh yeah it's um I've um I've they've

accompanied me um over the years and like I was saying earlier I

um I still have these grateful de doses um like right now I get my kicks from

listening to I pull out my old CDs I got a lot of the dick piics and the um

what came after the Dave's Picks yep um so those I in my car I still have a CD

player so uh driving to work and stuff I I do I spin those and then um obviously

digital um I like uh this podcast as

well what is his name Professor the professor the dead pod dead pod yeah uh

that guy is awesome every Friday he releases is one set of a show and does

his little intro seems like a real nice guy so I've been listening to

those and and yeah out in Europe so it's not

like like you should be super grateful man you you can go see all these fanss whenever you want it's it's

really uh there was really not a lot of that I mean there's a lot of music in in

in Europe for sure but the Grateful de um I've seen a couple cover bands over

in Europe um actually I think I just lied I think I saw one once or so I

can't even remember um it's it's like to of

here yeah and some of them great actually that's some of the other stuff I wanted to talk to you about I saw some

other thing I saw the Jerry Garcia band once back in the days that was

uh 92 or something which is which is a good year for the Garcia band I think

for sure yeah any of ear 90s ones where we could he had one of these late life

highs that happens with a lot of artists um I do kind of think that maybe he was

feeling like this is limited because he was hitting some

really again deep and and and heavy heavy moments um for sure like the maker w the

maker what when he fluffs out those notes and it is amazing yeah no doubt um

I really love Jerry and jgb I I feel like I don't know he was just more freed

I don't know free is the right word but it was definitely a different side of Jerry and and it was yeah it was and and

in some ways tighter like um like um they were like a you know blues rock

band to me um or mtown Motown um yeah really yeah especially with the the

background vocals and just the song Choices that he chose were not only mot

but just fit them so well they were just like made for that band it felt like when they played them even even like the

deer Prudence like the way they did deer made for that band you know yeah

true and the and the Jimmy Cliff stuff and the Peter Tosh um

yeah that was a that's another thing about Jerry Garcia I mean what a genius

um I mean he was obviously living what in Spain they call La La malava the bad

life he was obviously very unhealthy individual like physically speaking um

but he was in a bluegrass band he was in this Motown thing and the grateful that

simultanously yeah and then he was cutting tracks with jazz artists and and whatever ever Dave G they were doing

like the Dave G stuff yeah yeah the two of them doing stuff he was busy sure

when he messes up a line here there a vocal line like you he was working a a

song catalog of like 500 songs or something it's amazing you know it was amazing yeah truly aming so um Phil Le I

saw a few times um he had this I'm speaking the past tense because I think

it was shut down tabin Crossroads yeah um

beautiful place um what a well that made me really

sad when they closed that down I think the reopening though or something I heard something maybe um I'm not certain

I I never got a chance to go but a good friend of mine who lives out there said that he stopped in there quite a bit and

it wasn't unusual to see Phil playing or hanging out occasionally uh up there

kind of interesting not just occasionally he he put on a bunch of shows himself uh you know now he's 82 I

think or something like 82 something like that he in the band I

think and he still holds the band together I mean the stuff is I would I

would argue just from seeing in on YouTube I would argue that some of that stuff is tighter than than dead in

company in my opinion um but um so I saw them up there couple times like when I

visited my my family my my parents still have that house in the Bay Area all these years later um and so I

would drive over the Golden Gate and and see some stuff up there I saw

um uh Phil Les um what was the with Anders Osborne who I like a lot yeah um

that was nice I got to meet Phil L one time again as a asexual groupy it's it's

not rocket science it's like not rocket science you just hang around um you get a beer so here's the

here's the call it's super easy like like I should sell this as a as a strategy as a

teque it's so easy you just have to hang around as soon as the show is over

people are rushing for the doors you rush to the bar and you just kind of linger there and maybe if they can serve

you something still get a a beer or something and just linger linger

wait sometimes gets a little weird you go to the bathroom you keep lingering then the guys with the cables come out

and clean up and stuff keep lingering the band members are bound to come down because they're

thirsty and and so yeah I've met a lot of musicians that way and I was able to

you know congratulate them and and and they always love that and so Phil Les

was like that it was a really short conversation I said hello I'm Michael I'm from Austria and

he said oh I know Austria I've been to salburg once and I said I know I read

your autobiography that was the dialogue also a very good

autobiography for the sound right that's a beautiful that's a that made me cry on

a couple of passages that is a when he describes uh Jerry's death and he he's

like he he felt like he got punched in the stomach or something um yeah so I I I met him I've seen um um

what's his name Stu Stu Allen in Mars hotel or something like that and then

David Gans who looks like you a little bit speaking of which he's over in Berkeley in ashaz he does these dead

evenings and I've seen some I saw the uh the Nelson band from the per writers of

the Purple Sage right so there on um I saw further

once um at Outside Lands that was good I I thought it was I

thought there I thought the there was too much sound on there somehow they had these two backup singers and um they

they played a Pink Floyd cover they played time that was cool um but but I

wasn't I wasn't plus it was bad timing I was with my wife and and huge festival and her favorite band was playing at the

same time The Strokes The Strokes were playing at the same time as further like

a different it's like a huge field so they don't interfere it's that far away yeah and I remember we went to the

stro it's kind of funny actually I was like I was trying to you know do you

know the expression dance at both weddings like try to double Bill try to do both and so I was like okay Issa my

my wife's name Issa I was like okay Issa let's go over check out The Strokes but I wanted to be over um with fer

obviously um and we go over there and we see like two or three songs because they have these short

Poppy I I like The Strokes I think they're really good but they're short tight little rock songs and we saw two

or three and we came back and further was still in the still still in the same

D you know playing in the bed still going it was like Not Fade Away just 10

minutes later you know or 20 minutes later

um yeah so I was able to see both it was great um that's awesome but um it's

um yeah so I when I was over in California I would try to catch uh shows

sometimes I was there in the Summers and they would have Jerry Garcia birthday celebrations and stuff like that um

there just there's a lot of respect um for the Grateful letter of course there's there's people who beat up on

them and and just never got it but I think in general I find that if you talk to someone who knows his music they

might not like them but everyone says okay there was something special there

and Garcia everyone says yeah that guy was a kick-ass guitarist No Doubt

no doubt um you know he was able it's like what Bob Dylan said that his eulogy

right his and when when he died he said something to the extent of he was able to

bridge like the Carter family folklore all the way to ornette Coleman or

something like that I can't remember the exact quote and it's true he lots of

lots of space there um sure and

so so like you said I do like to wrap up here with like recommendations and

things like that so what what's something good that you've read or or seen a movie or or a brand new band or

something album what's something that yeah recently you could pass on to the

listeners I already mention groundation I think they're really good jazz band

and they have H sorry regab band but they have Jazz stuff in there do you know them do you know the

groundation I I don't but I wrote them down as well oh oh I almost Envy you for the first do

do you like reg music I do yeah very much so yes oh cool yeah uh yeah I'm

kind of envious for you to discover it for the first time he does his voice a little bit like isra vibration so that

gets maybe a little bit used getting used to but it's it's really tight really good reggae and um the ALB one I

would recommend there is Hebron gate um okay and they just last year

they they had a remix of of hron gate with this Drummond bass uh DJ it's just

really good because it still grooves it's not all torn up and all remixed you know it's

still you can play it as an album so um in music uh yeah woven hand um I'm I'm

pretty uh loyal to I like um I like some of the out country stuff

I like Jason isbel a lot I love that guy has got something his voice and his

songwriting very honest Tales like when you listen to the

lyrics yeaha thank you for being on the show I really appreciate everything you've said

today and and it's been entertaining and enlightening and a lot of fun for sure thank you uh lots of fun uh like I got a

huge smile on my face those of you who are just um listening um it just feels

good to to talk to someone who just knows what I'm talking about um right

and and I think your audience does as well the Grateful Dead just touched us really hard all of us so thanks so much

for inviting me very cool for sure all right thank you all right take it

easy